NYC Public Middle School Admissions: Strategies for Success

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Marcia Roesch: Hi! Welcome everybody

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Marcia Roesch: so glad that you're joining us today. Gonna wait one more minute. Just one more minute. We have a. It's a small group.

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Marcia Roesch: We're happy about that. But

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Marcia Roesch: we'll just

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Marcia Roesch: wait 1 min and then we'll get started.

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Marcia Roesch: Okay, I think we should start.

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Marcia Roesch: We give everybody lots of time.

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Marcia Roesch: Welcome, everyone. Thank you for joining us. This is the Public Middle School admissions workshop.

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Marcia Roesch: I'm Marcia Resch. I think I know most of you director of the school and child care search service in the office of work life.

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Marcia Roesch: and I'm joined here by Kristen Carnahan, the program manager of the office of work life and my right hand.

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Marcia Roesch: We do recognize that this is a time when you and your child are thinking about considering.

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Marcia Roesch: possibly stressing over the middle school admissions

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Marcia Roesch: process.

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Marcia Roesch: This workshop is designed to give you a deeper understanding

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Marcia Roesch: of the process for the public schools.

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Marcia Roesch: My friend and colleague, Maurice Frumpkin, is here

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Marcia Roesch: to

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Marcia Roesch: really share

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Marcia Roesch: his knowledge and information regarding at the admissions process.

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Marcia Roesch: Maurice is the president of the Nyc. Admissions, solutions, and former deputy executive Director of High school admissions with the New York

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Marcia Roesch: Department of Education.

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Marcia Roesch: We're really lucky to have a small, intimate group today, so it'll allow everyone to have an opportunity to ask questions that you may have, and we can. You can put them in the chat, or even just ask them at the end of Maurice's presentation.

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Marcia Roesch: and I remind you that if you would like an opportunity to meet with me, you can always contact our office to schedule a meeting.

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Marcia Roesch: So again, thank you for joining us, and, Maurice, take it from here.

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Maurice Frumkin: Thank you so much, Marsha and Kristen and

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Maurice Frumkin: the Columbia community for having me here today. It's really an honor.

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Maurice Frumkin: And hopefully, by the end of today's session.

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Maurice Frumkin: We'll be able to answer as many questions as possible, and just sort of put this whole process in perspective

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Maurice Frumkin: and help you

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Maurice Frumkin: sort of be able to navigate this in the most effective, efficient way possible.

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Maurice Frumkin: So it's pleasure to be here today. My background, as Marcia mentioned, is both with the DOE and also in the independent school world.

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Maurice Frumkin: and I have my own private consultancy, and happen to be also a public school parent who's been through a lot of the admissions processes before. So I have that perspective as well.

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Maurice Frumkin: And happy to talk to you individually about

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Maurice Frumkin: If if we can help your family out at all. So today we're gonna take you through the latest and greatest in terms of

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Maurice Frumkin: what we know from the DOE in terms of how the Middle School admissions process works, and we'll take you through some application strategies and resources and next steps, and just really help you demystify the way this all works. The one thing I I sort of I always kind of mentioned as a caveat is that I tend to not

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Maurice Frumkin: make school specific school recommendations in this type of forum. Since that is such an individualized subjective kind of thing. But we're gonna give you the the best strategic guidance

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Maurice Frumkin: today in terms of how to approach this process and and what you should be doing right now.

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Maurice Frumkin: And as you know this is one of a number of primary entry points. If you're a 5th grade family right now, applying for 6th grade, this is sort of one of the major milestone points in the DOE process, at which

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Maurice Frumkin: there are thousands of families that are applying for a 6th grade placement next year, and some of you might also be applying to other kinds of schools which can certainly give you other options. We have that benefit in New York City. But today we're going to focus mostly on the public middle school process.

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Maurice Frumkin: And as of right now.

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Maurice Frumkin: couple of things are going on so number one, you probably know by now, if you're in touch with the DOE communications that the

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Maurice Frumkin: the the official opening of the middle School application process just happened a couple of days ago. A little bit late. They delayed it for technical reasons, but it is officially open now, so

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Maurice Frumkin: we'll talk more about the application system itself and the nuts and bolts of what you'll see once you're in your account. But by now you are most likely logged into your my school's account, which is the

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Maurice Frumkin: primary portal through which you search for programs and apply for schools between now and December.

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Maurice Frumkin: Some of your kids might also be interested in in submitting auditions, preparing and submitting auditions for the relatively small handful of middle schools that have an audition based program across the city, and we'll talk more about how to do, how to submit those auditions, and when they're due and those kinds of things. And I think what ends up taking up a lot of time over the next couple of months

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Maurice Frumkin: are visiting schools. So we'll talk more about you know how and when to do that.

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Maurice Frumkin: And

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Maurice Frumkin: we're also going to talk today about the a couple of

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Maurice Frumkin: major changes to the middle school admissions process which I think are for the better

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Maurice Frumkin: and to to just help you understand what's going on and what the implications are for those things. And, as you can see on the slide

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Maurice Frumkin: in front of you, middle school applications are due by December 20.th So that's

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Maurice Frumkin: we'll get back to that in a moment. I'll explain more about what that means.

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Maurice Frumkin: As well as when audition materials are due, and we can talk about results and and maybe wait. List for a moment as well.

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Maurice Frumkin: So here are, here are some of the key updates. So the system is open. You can now log in. You can now start filling out your application if you would like.

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Maurice Frumkin: and right off the bat. A couple of big changes are number one.

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Maurice Frumkin: You know, there was middle school process used to be

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Maurice Frumkin: primarily a district

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Maurice Frumkin: limited type of process. In other words, based on where you live or go to school.

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Maurice Frumkin: Most of the options available to you were only in your district. That is no longer the case

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Maurice Frumkin: so essentially. What the DOE has done is they've ex. They've created more of a

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Maurice Frumkin: a la the high school admissions process more of a citywide kind of choice process

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Maurice Frumkin: with some geographic priorities.

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Maurice Frumkin: So they've said, Okay, we're gonna allow you to apply to a lot more schools than you used to be able to apply to.

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Maurice Frumkin: But we're gonna apply district priorities to many of those schools. So you can apply there. But

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Maurice Frumkin: just bear in mind that you all most likely be considered behind

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Maurice Frumkin: students that are within the district

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Maurice Frumkin: for a school that you might be applying to outside of the district. So I think that's really important to know. We'll we'll be talking more about that in a few minutes.

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Maurice Frumkin: The other

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Maurice Frumkin: pretty major change that was instituted this year is the DOE now allows you

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Maurice Frumkin: the option of choosing more than 12 programs. So whereas in the past you were, you were limited to 12 choices on your middle school application. Now, you're no longer limited to 12.

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Maurice Frumkin: So I think that gives families just generally a lot more flexibility to consider programs, especially pro. Now that you can apply to programs outside of your district gives you a little bit more flexibility in terms of just considering a greater number of programs across the city if you want to.

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Maurice Frumkin: I also want to mention, because I often forget to do this, that

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Maurice Frumkin: you know, especially because we're we're talking about. You know these are young. These are youngsters who,

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Maurice Frumkin: may or may not be, you know, savvy? With traveling around New York City.

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Maurice Frumkin: you know. Generally speaking, students are not entitled to transportation. Despite the fact that the city opened this this process up

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Maurice Frumkin: to be able to travel.

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Maurice Frumkin: you know effectively

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Maurice Frumkin: in all parts of the city.

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Maurice Frumkin: most students do not get transportation, so you are obligated as a family

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Maurice Frumkin: to figure out how to get your child to school. Now the the exception to that is, if a student has an Iep, for example, and within the Iep that designates that the student is entitled to busing. But other than that the vast majority of students do not get bused. So I think that's just really important to keep in mind when it comes to applying to schools, especially outside of your district.

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Maurice Frumkin: and also in terms of how you eventually rank programs on your application, which will

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Maurice Frumkin: hold that thought because we're going to get back to that in a few minutes as well.

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Maurice Frumkin: Now, essentially, between now

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Maurice Frumkin: and December 20.th

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Maurice Frumkin: It is

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Maurice Frumkin: kind of your obligation to decide how to fill out the middle school application.

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Maurice Frumkin: and it is not 1st come first.st Serve

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Maurice Frumkin: So

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Maurice Frumkin: basically, no aspect of this program of this process is 1st come 1st serve as long as you meet the deadlines.

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Maurice Frumkin: So we know the application is that deadline is is December 20.th We know there's a deadline to submit auditions in December. Not 1st come first.st Serve. There's no advantage to filling out your application sooner rather than later.

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Maurice Frumkin: There's also a deadline by which you you know, for families that are interested in Mark Twain. Middle school.

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Maurice Frumkin: there's a deadline by which you have to register for the Mark Twain assessment.

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Maurice Frumkin: and

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Maurice Frumkin: but again.

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Maurice Frumkin: as long as you do these things by the deadline, you're perfectly okay. Not 1st come first.st Serve the other thing that is not. 1st comes 1st serve just while I'm on. The topic

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Maurice Frumkin: is lottery number. So we're going to talk a little bit more about lottery number today.

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Maurice Frumkin: Some of you may have already

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Maurice Frumkin: gone logged into your my school system. My school's account, and got retrieved. Your lottery number some of you may not have. We'll talk more about that in a few minutes, but just know that lottery number

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Maurice Frumkin: is not determined by when you log into your account. So you have no, again, not 1st come 1st serve. You have no disadvantage necessarily, if you have not logged in and gotten your lottery number. Yet

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Maurice Frumkin: the other thing that I think, is important to understand about applying to middle schools. Is that

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Maurice Frumkin: a few things play no role whatsoever.

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Maurice Frumkin: Attendance

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Maurice Frumkin: plays no role.

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Maurice Frumkin: And we're talking primarily about 4th grade attendance, for example, plays no role.

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Maurice Frumkin: State testing plays, no role. So the Ela and the math state test that your your kids took as a 4th grader.

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Maurice Frumkin: or if you, if your child attends an independent school and they they happen to have taken a standardized test. Those play no role in the middle school admissions process.

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Maurice Frumkin: There are some cases

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Maurice Frumkin: where grades

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Maurice Frumkin: final course marks from 4th grade may play a role.

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Maurice Frumkin: So I'll talk more about that in a moment.

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Maurice Frumkin: And again, there is still a lottery component of this process. In fact.

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Maurice Frumkin: the majority of middle school programs throughout the city are lottery based

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Maurice Frumkin: and pay no attention to

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Maurice Frumkin: grades. Pay no attention to testing

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Maurice Frumkin: despite the fact that I mentioned that some programs do.

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Maurice Frumkin: Okay. So let's move on. So

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Maurice Frumkin: by now you are.

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Maurice Frumkin: you know, the my school's portal?

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Maurice Frumkin: In many cases you've probably already logged into my school's portal. This is the portal through which you do a lot of things associated with this process.

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Maurice Frumkin: And one of the things that

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Maurice Frumkin: you may have done already.

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Maurice Frumkin: especially I'm talking mostly to to 5th grade families is once you log in, you've probably looked at a page that looks something like this, which is

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Maurice Frumkin: the profile page within your my school's account.

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Maurice Frumkin: So basically, when you log into your account from the dashboard, there's a little link that says edit profile. And you can get to a page that looks something like this by clicking on that little link that says edit profile.

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Maurice Frumkin: If you are wondering why

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Maurice Frumkin: you don't see application random number on your profile page, for example, which is otherwise known as your lottery number.

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Maurice Frumkin: That is most likely, because you haven't started your application.

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Maurice Frumkin: So

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Maurice Frumkin: when you go to the dashboard. You literally have to click on. Get started with your application. There are a couple of questions that you answer. There are just some some of those preliminary steps that you have to follow before the application. Random number is populated

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Maurice Frumkin: in your on your profile page. So I just wanted to mention that before we get more into the topic

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Maurice Frumkin: of a lottery number.

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Maurice Frumkin: So, again, generally speaking, applying to public middle schools in New York City is defined by 6th grade entry, 5th graders applying for 6th grade. There are a couple of exceptions with students, schools that accept students for 5th grade, like the Center School or 7th grade, like

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Maurice Frumkin: the Baccalaureate School

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Maurice Frumkin: for Global education in Queens or

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Maurice Frumkin: Hunter College High School, which is completely an application process completely separate from the DOE process.

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Maurice Frumkin: But, generally speaking, when you're participating in this process, you're applying for 6th grade entry. Like I said.

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Maurice Frumkin: big difference in the past. It was, you were sort of relegated, limited to just for the most part district priorities, with a couple of exceptions. Now it is truly a citywide choice process

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Maurice Frumkin: subject to district priorities, geographic priorities.

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Maurice Frumkin: There's 1 application. You fill out all your

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Maurice Frumkin: choices on the application, whether they're district schools or not. District schools, whether they are

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Maurice Frumkin: screen programs

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Maurice Frumkin: that look at grades or lottery based programs or audition programs regardless of the type of program. They're all listed on your application, all on one application.

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Maurice Frumkin: and

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Maurice Frumkin: we're going to talk about ranking. You put them all in your true preference order

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Maurice Frumkin: results come out in April.

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Maurice Frumkin: And I think what can be confusing about applying to middle schools is that

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Maurice Frumkin: based on the program you look at, based on the school you look at.

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Maurice Frumkin: you'll find a variety of different priority structures.

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Maurice Frumkin: Priority hierarchies, whether it's geographic priority, or some schools that give

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Maurice Frumkin: sibling priority or priority that's given to students who are eligible for free and reduced price lunch.

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Maurice Frumkin: So this is also something to pay attention to in terms of what priority group you fall into.

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Maurice Frumkin: Now, the nice thing about

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Maurice Frumkin: what the DOE has done in recent years is that when you log into your system and you look at a program, it'll tell you what priority group you fall into

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Maurice Frumkin: now.

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Maurice Frumkin: does that necessarily

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Maurice Frumkin: give you always an indication of your chances to get into a program? Not always. It can still be a little bit mysterious in terms of what your chances might be.

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Maurice Frumkin: However, another, I think improvement in the my school system of late is that the DOE does give you a sense of.

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Maurice Frumkin: You know the students that got into that program last year, and what their priority groups were.

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Maurice Frumkin: So it does give you some sense?

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Maurice Frumkin: In as much as you can use that as a predictor for what what might happen this year.

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Maurice Frumkin: And I and I emphasize

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Maurice Frumkin: using some of that data as a predictor for this year, particularly because this is the 1st year that we have district priorities. So in other words, you know, if you're thinking to yourself, well, wait a second. If I apply to a program that's outside of my district, how do I know what my chances are?

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Maurice Frumkin: It's really hard to predict.

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Maurice Frumkin: But a good 1st place to do that is to look at last year's data in the my school's account, and I think I have a screenshot that shows you this to get some sense of.

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Maurice Frumkin: you know which priority groups admitted kids to that particular program from last year.

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Maurice Frumkin: So there are 4 basic principles of the process. You're choosing programs. Within schools. So the other thing to note which if you've been involved in

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Maurice Frumkin: you know, applying to kindergarten or some of some of the lower grade levels I mentioned a few minutes ago.

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Maurice Frumkin: You probably already know that technically, when you apply to school you apply. You're applying to a program within a school

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Maurice Frumkin: program within a school. So each program takes up one of the spots on the application.

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Maurice Frumkin: Now, there are a lot of schools that only have one program. That's the only way to get into that particular school. But you will likely come across some schools that might have a couple of different programs.

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Maurice Frumkin: So there are cut. There are a few schools in in

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Maurice Frumkin: District 2 in Manhattan, for example, that have 2 different programs. One is a screen program. The other one is not a screen program.

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Maurice Frumkin: and you can apply to both.

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Maurice Frumkin: There's nothing to lose by doing that.

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Maurice Frumkin: especially because we can go past 12 choices now.

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Maurice Frumkin: So even if you feel like, well.

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Maurice Frumkin: you know, my chances might not be so great with one program based on my lottery number or my screen. What's

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Maurice Frumkin: you know what my group students grades were last year, for example.

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Maurice Frumkin: you can apply to both programs. And there's no harm in doing that.

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Maurice Frumkin: So I just wanted to mention that some programs, some schools you come across might have more than one program you can apply to.

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Maurice Frumkin: Again, I I can't emphasize this, more especially now that we have a citywide process with with students of this age

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Maurice Frumkin: really pay attention to location and how you might feel like as a family your your child can get to these schools.

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Maurice Frumkin: Because that's gonna factor into

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Maurice Frumkin: whether or not, you list the school at all, and how you might rank that program on the application. I mean, I see so many families that end up ranking schools high on their application. I was just talking to a family a couple hours ago. As a matter of fact, where they're considering ranking a program on their application, really high on their application.

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Maurice Frumkin: almost ignoring how difficult the commute is going to be for their child.

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Maurice Frumkin: So really, really important when it comes to ranking

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Maurice Frumkin: and eventually you're gonna tell

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Maurice Frumkin: and be really honest with this matching algorithm in terms of your true preference order. Because that's how you should rank.

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Maurice Frumkin: even if

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Maurice Frumkin: programs are really hard to get into.

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Maurice Frumkin: and your counselor can help you interpret that whether or not a program might be really hard or not so hard to get into

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Maurice Frumkin: even programs that are hard to get into if they're your top. Choices should be listed at the top. So you don't want to play games with a rank order. I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but that's okay. You want to rank in true preference order. You are not

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Maurice Frumkin: disadvantaged

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Maurice Frumkin: for something. You listed lower on your application.

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Maurice Frumkin: Just because you put it lower. In other words, all, it's not as if all the seats are going to be gone for something. You put 5th on your application just because you put it 5.th

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Maurice Frumkin: So you should not. You know, sort of discount your chances.

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Maurice Frumkin: at a program that's ranked lower. Having said that

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Maurice Frumkin: the matching this matching algorithm takes into account your rank order.

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Maurice Frumkin: So this is why you want to be really honest with your rank order, because it's going to start at the top of your list

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Maurice Frumkin: and try to match you to the highest choice possible.

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Maurice Frumkin: So this is why you want to be honest, because if your 1st choice is not truly your 1st choice

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Maurice Frumkin: and your second choice, etc, etc.

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Maurice Frumkin: Then things could backfire, and you could end up getting something that you're not. You don't truly prefer.

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Maurice Frumkin: And all of these ingredients that sort of factor into how matches are made.

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Maurice Frumkin: This is where I like to encourage families to talk with a counselor, because

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Maurice Frumkin: all when you start to factor into all the factor in all these considerations.

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Maurice Frumkin: it can be really hard to figure out like what my chances are.

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Maurice Frumkin: And if I should consider this program

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Maurice Frumkin: because the algorithm, the matching algorithm is going to look at the way you rank the order, the programs on the application. It's going to pay attention to what priority group you fall into.

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Maurice Frumkin: It's going to pay attention to.

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Maurice Frumkin: you know, if I'm applying to an audition program. Well, that program is going to give me a score based on my audition

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Maurice Frumkin: or a test, as the case may be, for programs like at Mark Twain, High Mark Twain, middle school.

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Maurice Frumkin: I'm going to get a score based on my on those assessments.

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Maurice Frumkin: Or if I'm applying to a lottery based program or an open program.

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Maurice Frumkin: that is a program that's truly lottery based. So these are quite good questions for your counselor to help you interpret what your chances might be.

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Maurice Frumkin: and how these different

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Maurice Frumkin: factors, these all these different data points.

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Maurice Frumkin: and sort of factor into your chances of particular programs.

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Maurice Frumkin: Now, again, forgive the fact that you see high schools on here. But this works similar to the to the high school process, where you're filling up an application, you're putting them in true preference order.

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Maurice Frumkin: You're submitting them by December 20, th

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Maurice Frumkin: and again, not 1st come first.st Serve

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Maurice Frumkin: I can tell you statistically, as far as the middle school process is concerned, that

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Maurice Frumkin: you know what you will hear from the DOE.

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Maurice Frumkin: If you've attended one of their sessions, or you will be attending one of their sessions

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Maurice Frumkin: is that in previous years, for students who listed 12 choices.

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Maurice Frumkin: You have virtually a hundred percent chance of getting matched to one of your choices.

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Maurice Frumkin: Now.

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Maurice Frumkin: in some districts across the city

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Maurice Frumkin: you may have a zone middle school

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Maurice Frumkin: there are about. I believe it's about half and half. Some half of the districts across the city

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Maurice Frumkin: have a zoned middle school

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Maurice Frumkin: and half don't. So if you don't, if you live in a and it's based on where you live. So if you live in a district where you don't have a zone middle school.

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Maurice Frumkin: it's that's a pretty common phenomenon. But one of the reasons why I mention it

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Maurice Frumkin: is because.

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Maurice Frumkin: let's say I live in a district with his own middle school, and I put that

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Maurice Frumkin: zone program down on my application. It's virtually a guarantee, so you should put it on the bottom of your list.

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Maurice Frumkin: and that is one of the situations where

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Maurice Frumkin: you know. If a family says you know what I want to put my zone. I'm interested in my zone program because you don't have to list it. By the way.

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Maurice Frumkin: but I'm interested in my Zone program. I might have 3 choices that I'm interested that I prefer above my zone program.

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Maurice Frumkin: But I'm going to put my zone program as my 4th choice on my application.

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Maurice Frumkin: and if I don't get into my top 3,

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Maurice Frumkin: then I'm okay getting my zone in school.

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Maurice Frumkin: And that's not a terrible strategy.

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Maurice Frumkin: because your zone program should always be on the bottom. Wherever that, however, many programs are listed on your application, the zone program goes on the bottom. If you want to apply to your zone program. You do not have to

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Maurice Frumkin: so again, they're about half the districts in the city that have zone program half that don't

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Maurice Frumkin: Now, what I suspect is gonna happen, because

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Maurice Frumkin: families can now

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Maurice Frumkin: now have the option of going beyond 12 choices

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Maurice Frumkin: is, I think that statistic will improve even more

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Maurice Frumkin: in as much as where students who listed 12 choices in previous years had nearly a hundred percent chance of getting in. I think probably what's gonna happen this year.

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Maurice Frumkin: and what the DOE is probably counting on is that nearly everybody will get into the one of their choices.

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Maurice Frumkin: because there are more pro, more students that are listing even more than 12.

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Maurice Frumkin: So I think that matching rate, what the DOE likes to tout so often is going to be probably close to a hundred percent this year, which is a good thing.

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Maurice Frumkin: I think I'm I'm speculating a little bit, so please forgive me for that. But I think what will be very interesting is to see

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Maurice Frumkin: how many families

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Maurice Frumkin: list more long shots on their lists.

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Maurice Frumkin: especially the out of district programs. So, in other words, I might say to myself, You know what

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Maurice Frumkin: we we live pretty close to another district.

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Maurice Frumkin: So I'm going to apply to these other highly desirable schools in this other district.

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Maurice Frumkin: maybe even as one of some of my top choices, I mean, I see this happening particularly with in Manhattan, for example, I see this happening with.

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Maurice Frumkin: You know this phenomenon with District 3 versus District 2 versus District one. There are going to be a lot of families that submit applications and apply to to programs out of District

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Maurice Frumkin: high on their application.

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Maurice Frumkin: And that's okay.

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Maurice Frumkin: But I think it's gonna be really interesting to see

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Maurice Frumkin: what ends up happening with you know, in terms of what number choice students map then match to, because we know

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Maurice Frumkin: again, remember, you get priority to your own district. Right? So if I apply to an out of out of this or program.

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Maurice Frumkin: I'm taking my chances. It could be a real long shot at best to get into those programs. Okay, enough about that.

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Maurice Frumkin: So applicant pools. This is a statistic, another statistic. The DOE talks about very often, which is

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Maurice Frumkin: demand

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Maurice Frumkin: when you click on an individual program within a school. Because, remember.

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Maurice Frumkin: some schools have more than one program, some have one. But when you're in the my school system and you click on the individual program.

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Maurice Frumkin: you will get

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Maurice Frumkin: last year's stats in terms of how many seats were offered, how many applicants there were for that particular program.

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Maurice Frumkin: So it's good information to see

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Maurice Frumkin: to be able to start to assess

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Maurice Frumkin: the demand for these programs. You know, am I applying to a program that has a 12 to one applicant to see ratio like the one you see in front of you? Or is it closer to 2, to one or 3 to one

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Maurice Frumkin: which is definitely, you know, one really important indication of what your chances might be of getting into that particular program

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Maurice Frumkin: now

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Maurice Frumkin: subject

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Maurice Frumkin: to priority structure. And you know, auditions. And and sometimes when there might be a screen. And those kinds of things right? So demand is important.

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Maurice Frumkin: But it's not the only thing that's important.

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Maurice Frumkin: So this is again, is where your counselor can help you decipher all of these different factors. But, generally speaking, as a counselor.

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Maurice Frumkin: we like to see a a range of applicant to see ratios. For obvious reasons. We don't want you to only pick programs where you have the higher applicants to see ratios.

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Maurice Frumkin: This is something else you'll hear the DOE talk about when they encourage families

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Maurice Frumkin: to consider

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Maurice Frumkin: some programs on your application that have a lower applicant to see ratio right? So whether it's 2 to one, or 3 to one, or 4 to one.

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Maurice Frumkin: they will encourage families to do that again.

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Maurice Frumkin: mostly in the absence of a family that lists a zone program which is effectively a guarantee

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Maurice Frumkin: Or if you live in a district that doesn't have a zone that where you don't want to apply to your zone program.

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Maurice Frumkin: this diversification in terms of demand is really really important.

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Maurice Frumkin: The last thing I want to say on this slide is that you'll see 2 different seat groups what the do we call seat groups on the left hand side of the page. So you see the general led Applicant pool and the students with disabilities applicant pool.

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Maurice Frumkin: You will see those 2 different applicant pools for every program. Ignore the fact that that says specialized high schools that is more applicable to high school admissions. But you'll see those 2 different seats groups. You don't pick a seat group, you're automatically assigned to one versus the other.

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Maurice Frumkin: So if you haven't already, if you don't already know what C group you're in

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Maurice Frumkin: when in doubt.

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Maurice Frumkin: check your my school's profile, Page, because it'll tell you what seat group you're in, whether it's ge or Swd

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Maurice Frumkin: and just to clarify for students that fall into automatically that separate students with disabilities applicant pool. Those tend to be students that have an Iep

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Maurice Frumkin: where the Iep

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Maurice Frumkin: does, specifies that the student is entitled to receive a certain level of supports on their Iep, so not every student, necessarily with an Iep, falls into that separate applicant pool.

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Maurice Frumkin: But again, this is what you might notice here is that

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Maurice Frumkin: very often

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Maurice Frumkin: there are different varying levels of demand when you're comparing the 2 seat groups.

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Maurice Frumkin: So in this particular case, the students with disabilities. Applicant Pool has an applicant to see ratio of 8 to one.

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Maurice Frumkin: whereas the general at applicant pools 12 to one right? So we want to pay attention to these levels of demand based on the seat group that your child falls into.

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Maurice Frumkin: The other thing that I've sort of alluded to over the past few minutes to pay attention to are

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Maurice Frumkin: priority groups and admissions methods. So

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Maurice Frumkin: what are each of these things? So priority group determines the order in which candidates are considered

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Maurice Frumkin: to a program.

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Maurice Frumkin: So and you'll see priority groups for the vast majority of middle school programs throughout the city.

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Maurice Frumkin: So there might be.

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Maurice Frumkin: You will see district priority.

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Maurice Frumkin: You will see sibling priority.

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Maurice Frumkin: by the way, which does not

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Maurice Frumkin: is not relevant

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Maurice Frumkin: sibling priority for audition programs for screen programs.

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Maurice Frumkin: So just so you know, sibling priority tends to typically, apply to open programs or

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Maurice Frumkin: or zone programs. So those are more lottery based programs. So Zipline priority does not always play a role.

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Maurice Frumkin: And by the way, sibling when I say sibling priority, they're

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Maurice Frumkin: again, I'm getting ahead of myself. Please forgive me, but you have the option to specify. If you already have a sibling in the middle school, that your younger child may be applying to you will have the option to specify that when you apply.

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Maurice Frumkin: in which case.

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Maurice Frumkin: again, for open programs and zone programs, you can take advantage of that sibling priority.

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Maurice Frumkin: So there are different priority structures. There is continuing student priority. If I'm applying to a school that continues from 5th grade to 6th grade, right?

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Maurice Frumkin: Those students get priority.

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Maurice Frumkin: So all these different and 1 1 other one that I mentioned a few minutes ago, I might be applying to a school that allocates a certain percentage of seats for students who are eligible for a free and reduced price lunch.

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Maurice Frumkin: And there are certain districts that do that across the Board District 3 District 15, where you're gonna see? You're gonna see that for every school in the district.

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Maurice Frumkin: So it's important to pay attention to what's priority group you fall into. And again, when you're in your mind schools account, you will know that

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Maurice Frumkin: because it's going to tell you what priority group you fall into.

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Maurice Frumkin: Now, that's not to say that

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Maurice Frumkin: at all

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Maurice Frumkin: that you have to apply to only programs where you fall have to fall into the top priority group. In fact, I can tell you that's that's rare that that actually happens where every program you fall into the top priority group very rare.

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Maurice Frumkin: So don't be disturbed if you see that you fall into a lower priority group again, talk to your counselor about the implications depending upon what priority group you fall into.

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Maurice Frumkin: The other thing I just want to mention here is admissions method.

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Maurice Frumkin: So what admissions method tells you

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Maurice Frumkin: there's an admissions method for every program you apply to.

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Maurice Frumkin: And this tells you how candidates are considered

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Maurice Frumkin: so, whereas Priority group tells you the order in which candidates are considered admissions, method tells you how they're considered. So the different admissions methods for applying to middle school.

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Maurice Frumkin: we've got open programs which are lottery based programs. We're going to get back to lottery number in a moment.

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Maurice Frumkin: We've got testing programs like the test, the assessment programs at Mark Twain, Middle school and a couple others. We've got audition programs. There are a handful of audition programs throughout the city that require that you submit an audition

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Maurice Frumkin: which, by the way.

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Maurice Frumkin: are based 100% on the audition.

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Maurice Frumkin: So grades have nothing to do with it.

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Maurice Frumkin: There are

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Maurice Frumkin: and and by the way, those ones that I just mentioned, audition testing open programs, lottery based programs represent the majority of programs throughout the city.

343
00:33:09.090 --> 00:33:17.320
Maurice Frumkin: There are also some screen programs, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, some screen programs that do consider final 4th grade academic record.

344
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Maurice Frumkin: So basically, what the DOE does is they take

345
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Maurice Frumkin: your average for your final 4th grade.

346
00:33:25.040 --> 00:33:26.460
Maurice Frumkin: 4 courses

347
00:33:27.262 --> 00:33:32.249
Maurice Frumkin: Ela math, social studies science. They take the average of those final 4th grade courses.

348
00:33:32.290 --> 00:33:38.129
Maurice Frumkin: and that determines your hierarchy essentially for applying to screen programs

349
00:33:38.250 --> 00:33:40.899
Maurice Frumkin: where they exist throughout the city.

350
00:33:41.900 --> 00:33:45.420
Maurice Frumkin: There aren't a lot of them, but there are some of them that you might come across

351
00:33:46.780 --> 00:33:50.939
Maurice Frumkin: for programs that you might be applying to. So those are admissions methods.

352
00:33:51.520 --> 00:33:53.710
Maurice Frumkin: This is sort of a recap of that.

353
00:33:54.197 --> 00:34:00.880
Maurice Frumkin: Again, you'll see some schools. There are 6 schools in District 21, including Mark twain

354
00:34:01.090 --> 00:34:03.489
Maurice Frumkin: that use.

355
00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:09.929
Maurice Frumkin: I should say there are 10 programs within those 6 schools in District 21

356
00:34:10.030 --> 00:34:12.770
Maurice Frumkin: that use either an audition or a talent test.

357
00:34:13.040 --> 00:34:15.370
Maurice Frumkin: Now, those schools are

358
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Maurice Frumkin: likely very far away for a lot of you. But in case you're within proximity of those schools it's good to know that there is a process by which you have to take an assessment and or an audition at those 10 programs. By the way, you can only apply to up to 2 of them on your application. So that's good to know there is a limit among those 10 programs at those 6 schools in district 21,

359
00:34:39.090 --> 00:34:54.049
Maurice Frumkin: and there is also a deadline by which you have to register for the Mark Twain assessment. Just so, you know. Which I want to say is November 13, th if I'm remembering correctly at sometime in mid November, so there's a deadline you'll be able to register. You can do that through

360
00:34:54.090 --> 00:34:56.090
Maurice Frumkin: your my school's portal.

361
00:34:56.100 --> 00:34:58.300
Maurice Frumkin: which is where you do a lot of these things.

362
00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:03.069
Maurice Frumkin: So this is sort of a recap of the different admissions methods you'll see for the middle school process.

363
00:35:03.460 --> 00:35:06.010
Maurice Frumkin: So I want to talk about random numbers, a second, because

364
00:35:06.060 --> 00:35:08.443
Maurice Frumkin: just being conscious of time,

365
00:35:09.530 --> 00:35:20.739
Maurice Frumkin: everybody gets a random number, or what many people call lottery number. And remember, on your my school's profile page, you'll see this number, as it's called your admissions random number

366
00:35:21.505 --> 00:35:28.139
Maurice Frumkin: it is a long string of digits. It's based on a hexadecimal system which a lot of you probably know more about than I do.

367
00:35:28.560 --> 00:35:34.530
Maurice Frumkin: What tells you a lot about the random number is the 1st digit of the ran of of the string of digits.

368
00:35:36.850 --> 00:35:42.879
Maurice Frumkin: And before I talk a little before I go on, I just want to put this in perspective. The the lottery number

369
00:35:42.930 --> 00:35:45.379
Maurice Frumkin: should be looked at in context

370
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Maurice Frumkin: of

371
00:35:47.460 --> 00:35:49.680
Maurice Frumkin: the different things that we've already talked about.

372
00:35:50.090 --> 00:35:51.350
Maurice Frumkin: Priority group.

373
00:35:52.523 --> 00:35:53.890
Maurice Frumkin: Admissions method.

374
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Maurice Frumkin: academic screening for a screen program, etc, etc.

375
00:35:59.860 --> 00:36:03.190
Maurice Frumkin: Lottery numbers should be taken in context of those things.

376
00:36:03.580 --> 00:36:07.080
Maurice Frumkin: because, for example, especially priority groups. For example.

377
00:36:07.100 --> 00:36:09.719
Maurice Frumkin: if I'm applying to, let's say

378
00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:13.799
Maurice Frumkin: I'm applying to a lottery program, and I have

379
00:36:14.010 --> 00:36:23.100
Maurice Frumkin: the best lottery number, and I'll tell you. I'll sort of quantify that in a moment. But let's say I have a really really strong lottery number, and I'm applying to an out of district program.

380
00:36:24.460 --> 00:36:25.520
Maurice Frumkin: Remember

381
00:36:25.650 --> 00:36:31.830
Maurice Frumkin: the out of district program. I'm going to fall into a lower priority group, right? I'm going to fall behind all the students that are applying from that district.

382
00:36:32.150 --> 00:36:39.160
Maurice Frumkin: It doesn't matter that my lottery number is better than every single other applicant that's within the district.

383
00:36:39.190 --> 00:36:42.199
Maurice Frumkin: It doesn't matter. I'm still gonna fall behind

384
00:36:42.270 --> 00:36:44.999
Maurice Frumkin: all of those students that are within the district.

385
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:47.705
Maurice Frumkin: So this is why I say

386
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:54.710
Maurice Frumkin: I I speak with a lot of families that I think do not take lottery number into con in context.

387
00:36:54.750 --> 00:36:58.600
Maurice Frumkin: and they look at their lottery number in a vacuum, and they say, Oh, boy.

388
00:36:58.840 --> 00:37:02.579
Maurice Frumkin: I either have a great lottery number or a terrible lottery number, and they make

389
00:37:02.670 --> 00:37:04.160
Maurice Frumkin: judgments based on that.

390
00:37:05.250 --> 00:37:06.510
Maurice Frumkin: Having said that

391
00:37:08.010 --> 00:37:21.779
Maurice Frumkin: if I were to look in at my lottery number in a vacuum. How do I interpret it? So the 1st digital lottery number tells you a lot. The lower numbers 0 1, 2, 3 are the strongest lottery numbers. The weakest lottery numbers have the higher letters.

392
00:37:23.480 --> 00:37:25.560
Maurice Frumkin: so the 1st digit

393
00:37:25.910 --> 00:37:32.639
Maurice Frumkin: starts with 0, goes up to 9, and then continues from a like apple to F like Frank.

394
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:36.059
Maurice Frumkin: so 0 to 9 8 f. So the entire range

395
00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:38.099
Maurice Frumkin: of the 1st digit

396
00:37:38.140 --> 00:37:40.960
Maurice Frumkin: is 0 through F like Frank.

397
00:37:41.470 --> 00:38:01.070
Maurice Frumkin: So again, if you know the hexadecimal system. You probably know that already. So if I have a you know, Def, those are some of the the weaker lottery numbers. If mine starts with a 0 1, 2, 3. Those are some of the stronger lottery numbers. But again, talk to your counselor about the implications of your lottery number in context of all these other things.

398
00:38:01.730 --> 00:38:07.140
Maurice Frumkin: And, by the way, including demand right? There's a

399
00:38:08.380 --> 00:38:16.819
Maurice Frumkin: you know, if I'm if I'm applying to a school, if if let's say I have a weaker lottery number. But but I'm applying to a school that has a much lower applicant to see ratio.

400
00:38:17.810 --> 00:38:22.180
Maurice Frumkin: That's a big difference. I might have a much greater likelihood of getting into that program

401
00:38:22.540 --> 00:38:25.989
Maurice Frumkin: versus a school that has a much higher applicant. C. Ratio.

402
00:38:26.050 --> 00:38:29.029
Maurice Frumkin: So demand is also a really key metric.

403
00:38:29.784 --> 00:38:33.050
Maurice Frumkin: This is sort of just the table that I like to put up in terms of

404
00:38:33.220 --> 00:38:40.550
Maurice Frumkin: just in a vacuum, having a better understanding of lottery number in terms of what you know. Approximate quartiles

405
00:38:40.846 --> 00:38:44.580
Maurice Frumkin: you might fall into, based on the 1st digit of your your lottery number.

406
00:38:44.780 --> 00:38:51.590
Maurice Frumkin: We will get the we're gonna get sorry. I should have mentioned this at the beginning. We're gonna get this full recording out to everybody. So you can go through this.

407
00:38:51.700 --> 00:38:54.229
Maurice Frumkin: These slides in more detail if you would like.

408
00:38:55.590 --> 00:39:03.369
Maurice Frumkin: Priority groups, as I said, are really powerful. So based on the priority group you fall into it can have a significant impact on your chances of getting into these programs.

409
00:39:05.240 --> 00:39:07.040
Maurice Frumkin: free and reduced price lunch

410
00:39:07.060 --> 00:39:13.380
Maurice Frumkin: district priority zone priority continuing 5th grade priority sibling priority, which we talked about a little bit.

411
00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:17.130
Maurice Frumkin: and obviously, you know.

412
00:39:17.487 --> 00:39:21.619
Maurice Frumkin: for screen groups, my 4th grade marks are going to come into play.

413
00:39:21.830 --> 00:39:28.400
Maurice Frumkin: The one thing that I didn't mention is this multiples function, which is basically, you know, if I have twins

414
00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:29.650
Maurice Frumkin: or triplets

415
00:39:30.435 --> 00:39:31.953
Maurice Frumkin: if I have

416
00:39:32.930 --> 00:39:38.009
Maurice Frumkin: 2 or more siblings that are applying to middle school at the same time that are both in 5th grade.

417
00:39:39.180 --> 00:39:44.140
Maurice Frumkin: Basically, you can take advantage of that and submit the same application for both students.

418
00:39:44.710 --> 00:39:47.650
Maurice Frumkin: If if you don't mind doing that.

419
00:39:48.020 --> 00:39:54.180
Maurice Frumkin: one of the advantages to doing that is, you end up with a better lottery the better lottery number of the 2.

420
00:39:54.870 --> 00:39:58.970
Maurice Frumkin: So let's say, I was just speaking with a family the other day with twins.

421
00:39:59.540 --> 00:40:03.230
Maurice Frumkin: They got one lottery number that was, I want to say, an E

422
00:40:03.630 --> 00:40:04.959
Maurice Frumkin: E like Edward

423
00:40:05.050 --> 00:40:12.759
Maurice Frumkin: Lottery number not a strong lottery number, and the other student had a much significantly better lottery number that started with a a number.

424
00:40:14.020 --> 00:40:15.900
Maurice Frumkin: and a lower number at that.

425
00:40:16.210 --> 00:40:26.949
Maurice Frumkin: So I asked them. I talked to them about this multiples function, and they agreed that it made sense to do that, and they can take advantage of the stronger lottery number. So it's just something to consider if you have students in that situation

426
00:40:27.710 --> 00:40:37.080
Maurice Frumkin: so sibling priorities as I mentioned before. If your child, if your older child is currently, or rather, if your younger child is currently applying to a school

427
00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:39.869
Maurice Frumkin: where you have an older child already. There.

428
00:40:40.050 --> 00:40:50.619
Maurice Frumkin: there may be priority, but this tends to be primarily open programs, lottery based programs or zone programs. So it's not necessarily every program where you'll be able to take advantage of that.

429
00:40:51.190 --> 00:40:55.639
Maurice Frumkin: The other thing that I quickly mentioned before there are some districts in the city, that

430
00:40:55.850 --> 00:41:04.199
Maurice Frumkin: where across the board their schools are prioritizing and allocating a certain percentage of seats for students who are eligible for free and reduced price. Lunch?

431
00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:06.550
Maurice Frumkin: So

432
00:41:06.810 --> 00:41:10.430
Maurice Frumkin: you know again talk to your counselor. If if you fall into that category

433
00:41:10.810 --> 00:41:19.509
Maurice Frumkin: or not, what the implications are, and that doesn't always mean you don't. Don't have a chance of getting into these schools, but it can have an impact on your chances.

434
00:41:20.140 --> 00:41:26.589
Maurice Frumkin: And, by the way, eligibility for free and reduced price. Lunch does require self-reported family income.

435
00:41:26.700 --> 00:41:36.420
Maurice Frumkin: So if you haven't talked to your school about that or reported your family income, and you feel like you might qualify. You know I definitely encourage you to do that. So

436
00:41:36.490 --> 00:41:47.210
Maurice Frumkin: success, strategy number one. How many should you list? I think it's still a good rule of thumb to get to 12 choices you're willing to consider, and if you go beyond that, that's kind of a bonus.

437
00:41:47.750 --> 00:41:49.900
Maurice Frumkin: I think it's I don't think.

438
00:41:50.060 --> 00:41:52.609
Maurice Frumkin: you know now that there's no limit anymore.

439
00:41:53.060 --> 00:42:01.169
Maurice Frumkin: It's not as if you have to apply to 20 or 30 different programs. You don't have to do that. But there is a case to be made for families who.

440
00:42:01.550 --> 00:42:06.009
Maurice Frumkin: you know, whereas before you might not have wanted to put down so many long shots.

441
00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:23.619
Maurice Frumkin: There's more flexibility to do that now. So because before you had a finite number of choices, you had to be really careful not to fill up 11 of your 12 choices with long shots. Right? For obvious reasons. Now there's more flexibility. You can put more long shots down if you choose to do that. And I think that's

442
00:42:24.740 --> 00:42:29.579
Maurice Frumkin: perfectly relevant, especially when it comes to applying to programs outside of your district.

443
00:42:29.950 --> 00:42:33.340
Maurice Frumkin: because those programs in most cases

444
00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:35.430
Maurice Frumkin: are going to be

445
00:42:35.790 --> 00:42:37.349
Maurice Frumkin: harder to get into.

446
00:42:38.320 --> 00:42:48.220
Maurice Frumkin: because the kids in their own district, especially these highly sought after schools, not in every case, but many of these are highly sought after schools where, if you fall into a a non district

447
00:42:48.430 --> 00:42:56.019
Maurice Frumkin: priority group, it, it can be very hard to get into these programs. But can you list them? Absolutely, because you can go beyond 12. Now.

448
00:42:56.790 --> 00:43:04.770
Maurice Frumkin: zone middle schools we sort of talked about some of you may have them. Some of you may not. If you're willing to consider your Zone Middle school, put the zone program at the bottom.

449
00:43:05.130 --> 00:43:12.159
Maurice Frumkin: You know some families put the screen program higher. They rank the screen program higher and they put the zone program at the bottom. And that's perfectly okay.

450
00:43:14.270 --> 00:43:19.790
Maurice Frumkin: And the last thing I want to talk about on this slide is that this this notion of fair game?

451
00:43:20.050 --> 00:43:22.630
Maurice Frumkin: Anything that's on your application is fair game.

452
00:43:23.310 --> 00:43:26.029
Maurice Frumkin: So yes, you should rank in your true preference order.

453
00:43:26.470 --> 00:43:27.500
Maurice Frumkin: But

454
00:43:27.580 --> 00:43:30.909
Maurice Frumkin: you should not list anything, you know, despite the fact that

455
00:43:31.620 --> 00:43:33.480
Maurice Frumkin: you can list as many as you want.

456
00:43:33.490 --> 00:43:38.179
Maurice Frumkin: you should not list anything you're not willing to consider, because once it's on your application, it's fair game

457
00:43:38.610 --> 00:43:40.990
Maurice Frumkin: whether it's your 1st choice or your 12th choice.

458
00:43:41.390 --> 00:43:48.470
Maurice Frumkin: Now, statistically getting your 12th choice is not highly probable. I mean, it's probably less than 1% chance of that happening.

459
00:43:49.090 --> 00:43:55.629
Maurice Frumkin: But still, if I have 0% chance, or I have 0 interest in my 12th choice school.

460
00:43:55.690 --> 00:44:00.420
Maurice Frumkin: You should not put it down on your application, because you just never know you don't want to take those chances.

461
00:44:01.620 --> 00:44:03.787
Maurice Frumkin: viability and balance. So

462
00:44:04.750 --> 00:44:11.688
Maurice Frumkin: all of these different factors that we talked about today. Talk to your counselor about what that means for your for your application.

463
00:44:12.090 --> 00:44:26.490
Maurice Frumkin: terms of your chances of getting into these programs, and how well balanced your application is, and just honestly, at the end of the day, making sure that you've got some backup options that you've got some programs on there that you have a higher likelihood of getting into. But you're still willing to consider.

464
00:44:27.210 --> 00:44:30.769
Maurice Frumkin: and I mentioned this notion of the high achiever trap.

465
00:44:30.800 --> 00:44:32.260
Maurice Frumkin: You know there's

466
00:44:33.470 --> 00:44:50.190
Maurice Frumkin: I mentioned that because you know, some of these schools, as we know, are very highly selective, despite the fact that students might have really really strong grades in middle school. So not only do you want to pay attention to priority group. But you just want to pay attention to the overall demand for some of these highly sought after programs.

467
00:44:50.560 --> 00:44:57.669
Maurice Frumkin: because, even though my students grades might be really strong. I'm competing against a lot of other kids that have strong grades as well.

468
00:44:58.420 --> 00:45:01.500
Maurice Frumkin: And in what order we sort of talked about this already

469
00:45:01.850 --> 00:45:04.130
Maurice Frumkin: do not rank in terms of

470
00:45:04.500 --> 00:45:07.209
Maurice Frumkin: perceived likelihood of getting in.

471
00:45:07.680 --> 00:45:09.859
Maurice Frumkin: Do not rank in terms of

472
00:45:11.810 --> 00:45:15.489
Maurice Frumkin: How selective a school might be, or what priority group you fall into

473
00:45:15.710 --> 00:45:17.929
Maurice Frumkin: or the demand for a program.

474
00:45:20.200 --> 00:45:25.479
Maurice Frumkin: you should rank in true preference order, regardless of your chances of getting in.

475
00:45:26.100 --> 00:45:28.239
Maurice Frumkin: And the algorithm takes that into account.

476
00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:29.290
Maurice Frumkin: So

477
00:45:29.450 --> 00:45:34.830
Maurice Frumkin: I I like to give this example. Let's say I apply to a program as my 5th choice.

478
00:45:35.520 --> 00:45:37.610
Maurice Frumkin: because it was truly my 5th choice.

479
00:45:38.580 --> 00:45:40.519
Maurice Frumkin: and we'll call that program. A

480
00:45:40.580 --> 00:45:44.380
Maurice Frumkin: and another student applies to program A as their 1st choice.

481
00:45:44.800 --> 00:45:47.070
Maurice Frumkin: Now, forgetting about priority groups.

482
00:45:47.330 --> 00:45:56.139
Maurice Frumkin: Let's say my lottery number is better than the student that put that same program as their 1st choice. So this is a lottery based program

483
00:45:56.290 --> 00:46:02.510
Maurice Frumkin: which most programs are. Let's say my lottery number is better than the student. That put that same program as their 1st choice.

484
00:46:02.920 --> 00:46:07.399
Maurice Frumkin: I put it as my 5th choice. If I don't get into my top 4,

485
00:46:08.380 --> 00:46:13.630
Maurice Frumkin: because again, the algorithm goes in my order of preference. But if I don't get into my top 4,

486
00:46:13.670 --> 00:46:16.730
Maurice Frumkin: I'm still gonna get into that program

487
00:46:17.300 --> 00:46:18.900
Maurice Frumkin: ahead of

488
00:46:19.290 --> 00:46:23.099
Maurice Frumkin: the other student who put it first.st If my, because my lottery number is better

489
00:46:23.550 --> 00:46:31.269
Maurice Frumkin: so again, if I don't get into my top 4, there's never going to be a situation where I don't get in ahead of that other student.

490
00:46:31.830 --> 00:46:36.769
Maurice Frumkin: because my lottery number is better. And I use this example because I just want to emphasize the fact that

491
00:46:36.990 --> 00:46:41.920
Maurice Frumkin: it's not as if, because I put that program. 5, th that all the seats are going to be gone

492
00:46:42.670 --> 00:46:47.950
Maurice Frumkin: if I don't get one of my top 4. My 5th choice effectively becomes my new 1st choice

493
00:46:48.210 --> 00:46:51.189
Maurice Frumkin: from the standpoint of the the way the algorithm works.

494
00:46:52.257 --> 00:46:57.420
Maurice Frumkin: By the way, if some of you might know this, this matching process

495
00:46:58.010 --> 00:47:03.540
Maurice Frumkin: is based on the medical school matching algorithm, you know, there are a lot of similarities. If you follow

496
00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:22.649
Maurice Frumkin: Professor Al Roth, who, I believe, is at Stanford now. He and his team of researchers developed this algorithm, this matching algorithm years ago, and he subsequently won the Nobel in economics. If you're interested in following some of his stuff, this is Professor Al Roth, it's all based on that.

497
00:47:23.290 --> 00:47:27.030
Maurice Frumkin: So, student. B. This is the kind of application that we like to see.

498
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:40.270
Maurice Frumkin: 12 choices. They put the they chose to put their zone program at the bottom, which is great. That's effectively a guarantee. And so you know, their their likelihood of getting one of their choices is essentially a hundred percent

499
00:47:40.330 --> 00:47:45.929
Maurice Frumkin: student. A, we get a little bit nervous about because they only filled up 8 choices. And they're all highly selective programs.

500
00:47:46.230 --> 00:47:49.679
Maurice Frumkin: When I say highly selective, it could be because

501
00:47:49.700 --> 00:48:00.490
Maurice Frumkin: the applicant to to seat ratio was really high. It could be because they were applying to all programs where they fell into a low priority group. It could be because they were applying to all screen programs.

502
00:48:00.670 --> 00:48:02.779
Maurice Frumkin: And my child's grades were not.

503
00:48:03.610 --> 00:48:04.770
Maurice Frumkin: We're modest.

504
00:48:05.150 --> 00:48:07.759
Maurice Frumkin: So variety of these different. It could be because

505
00:48:08.334 --> 00:48:14.590
Maurice Frumkin: my lottery number was weaker. And I'm applying to all lottery programs. So it sort of depends on the individual circumstances. What.

506
00:48:14.730 --> 00:48:19.250
Maurice Frumkin: how highly selective might be defined in that particular case.

507
00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:26.210
Maurice Frumkin: But I don't want to be in that, you know. I'm sort of leaving it to chance. Because, student A runs the risk a much higher risk

508
00:48:26.780 --> 00:48:31.549
Maurice Frumkin: of being placed somewhere that they didn't choose by the DOE.

509
00:48:32.350 --> 00:48:45.080
Maurice Frumkin: And now, if you live in a district where you have a zone middle school. There's a very high likelihood the DOE place you in your zone middle school. Now, student A did not list their zone middle school, so that tells me they were not interested in their zone school.

510
00:48:45.630 --> 00:48:48.460
Maurice Frumkin: If you live in a district without a zone middle school.

511
00:48:48.900 --> 00:48:56.289
Maurice Frumkin: basically, what's gonna happen is the do is, gonna place your child in a middle school that is within proximity, that has seats available.

512
00:48:56.840 --> 00:49:02.569
Maurice Frumkin: and you may not be happy with that choice. So you just don't want to take that approach.

513
00:49:03.540 --> 00:49:09.219
Maurice Frumkin: And this is kind of the middle school results, timeline. So again, we're expecting all the results to come out in April.

514
00:49:09.270 --> 00:49:24.369
Maurice Frumkin: If you happen to be applying to other kinds of schools, whether it be parochial or independent, those results come out earlier. And again, the the expectation for the Wait List process, because there is a wait list process with public middle schools is that that will commence

515
00:49:24.390 --> 00:49:29.360
Maurice Frumkin: as soon as middle school results come out again around April 9th this year.

516
00:49:29.550 --> 00:49:36.830
Maurice Frumkin: and that weightless process usually lasts throughout the entire summer, and ends sometime in mid September, which is still the expectation.

517
00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.730
Maurice Frumkin: and, by the way, just really quickly. With respect to waitlists.

518
00:49:40.530 --> 00:49:42.629
Maurice Frumkin: what happens with wait lists is

519
00:49:43.497 --> 00:49:46.119
Maurice Frumkin: let's say I'm matched to my 6th choice.

520
00:49:46.720 --> 00:49:53.549
Maurice Frumkin: I am automatically waitlisted for my top 5 choices. So I'm automatically waitlisted to any program that I listed above the one I got matched to.

521
00:49:54.140 --> 00:49:56.840
Maurice Frumkin: So if I match to my top choice.

522
00:49:57.080 --> 00:50:01.889
Maurice Frumkin: I'm not wait listed anywhere. If I'm matched to my 15th choice

523
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:09.770
Maurice Frumkin: won't happen a lot highly unlikely. But if it did happen, I get wait listed automatically to my top. 14 choices.

524
00:50:11.770 --> 00:50:14.349
Maurice Frumkin: My weightless position, by the way.

525
00:50:14.450 --> 00:50:17.849
Maurice Frumkin: is going to be determined by my priority group.

526
00:50:18.950 --> 00:50:21.999
Maurice Frumkin: So priority group is really important even in the waitlist process.

527
00:50:22.060 --> 00:50:24.449
Maurice Frumkin: My weightless position also

528
00:50:24.700 --> 00:50:30.499
Maurice Frumkin: for a lottery program, by the way, is based on a new lottery number

529
00:50:30.530 --> 00:50:36.429
Maurice Frumkin: that I get in the wait list. So I get a different lottery number for each and every. Wait list that I'm on.

530
00:50:36.890 --> 00:50:45.839
Maurice Frumkin: So it's different from the sort of the main round where I just get one lottery number in the way this process, I actually get a different lottery number for every program

531
00:50:45.990 --> 00:50:47.610
Maurice Frumkin: that I'm on a wait list for.

532
00:50:48.220 --> 00:50:57.450
Maurice Frumkin: so some families say to themselves, you know what? I don't have a great chance of getting into this particular program, but I'm going to list it, anyway, maybe even high on my application.

533
00:50:57.550 --> 00:51:03.350
Maurice Frumkin: because I know that I might get a better lottery number in the weightless process. There's not necessarily anything wrong with that.

534
00:51:03.430 --> 00:51:05.760
Maurice Frumkin: but I think it's just important to know that.

535
00:51:06.164 --> 00:51:14.139
Maurice Frumkin: You know it can be. It can be hard to come off of a wait list. There are a lot of programs that don't even take any kids off of their wait list. So it's a little bit different.

536
00:51:14.150 --> 00:51:17.995
Maurice Frumkin: Then a lot of independent schools, which, you know.

537
00:51:18.820 --> 00:51:26.899
Maurice Frumkin: you know, or might have a higher likelihood of taking at least a few kids off of a wait list. That's not necessarily the case for a lot of the highly sought after public schools.

538
00:51:27.960 --> 00:51:30.498
Maurice Frumkin: So next steps and I'm sorry we're I. Wanna

539
00:51:31.238 --> 00:51:34.190
Maurice Frumkin: I'm talking a lot. But I want to get some questions.

540
00:51:34.580 --> 00:51:40.130
Maurice Frumkin: log into your my schools account, familiarize yourself with the admissions methods for the programs you're looking at

541
00:51:40.140 --> 00:52:04.779
Maurice Frumkin: screened open audition, testing whatever the case may be. If you're signing up for the the testing at Mark Twain, for example, just note the registration deadline November 8.th You can do that in your my schools account, you should be actively signing up for school events and sign up for DOE emails. It's really important. The DOE, by the way, has a an events calendar. You've probably seen this [email protected].

542
00:52:04.820 --> 00:52:13.740
Maurice Frumkin: That's a really helpful tool to look for school events that are happening. If for some reason you don't see a middle school that has an event listed on the my school's calendar.

543
00:52:13.930 --> 00:52:22.160
Maurice Frumkin: check the individual school website, just because not every school necessarily lists their event on the DOE calendar.

544
00:52:23.058 --> 00:52:31.769
Maurice Frumkin: Oh, and this is this is just a pick, a screenshot of what the calendar looks like. So again, this [email protected], you'll see. You can filter for middle school events.

545
00:52:32.052 --> 00:52:44.839
Maurice Frumkin: On this calendar, and and it's a good idea to do that right now. These are just some key resources. I just point out the sign up URL in the middle, there to sign up. Make sure you're on the middle school admissions emails from the DOE.

546
00:52:45.020 --> 00:52:45.620
Maurice Frumkin: And

547
00:52:46.910 --> 00:53:00.630
Maurice Frumkin: and this is this is me so happy to speak with you, or or if you want to speak to somebody on my team about how we can work with you on anything from Pre K. Or maybe you have a student applying to college or high school. We can help you with that as well. So happy to speak to you about that.

548
00:53:00.770 --> 00:53:06.760
Maurice Frumkin: And with that I'm going to stop sharing my screen. I talked a little bit too much. I apologize, but

549
00:53:06.770 --> 00:53:09.800
Maurice Frumkin: again I went fast. But we'll share the recording out with everybody.

550
00:53:11.680 --> 00:53:15.289
Maurice Frumkin: and I think we're gonna take some questions through the chat. If I'm not mistaken.

551
00:53:21.580 --> 00:53:26.170
Maurice Frumkin: I'm not sure if folks can unmute, if you can please feel free, or you can raise your hand.

552
00:53:27.900 --> 00:53:40.770
Tal Korem: Yeah, so I have a question, how do random numbers come into play and screen schools so like, how how do I get a sense for this. If I have, you know, good grades and a bad lottery number vice versa.

553
00:53:41.220 --> 00:53:48.980
Maurice Frumkin: Great question. So for screen programs, the lottery number 10 tends to play a role as a tiebreaker. So, for example, if students have the same

554
00:53:49.593 --> 00:53:55.096
Maurice Frumkin: course average from the end of 4th grade. It's more of a tiebreaker situation.

555
00:53:56.300 --> 00:54:09.349
Maurice Frumkin: So because everybody gets a unique lottery number. So everybody has a different one. And that's similar also for audition programs. So for example, if I apply to an audition program, and I get the same exact audition score as somebody else.

556
00:54:09.590 --> 00:54:13.750
Maurice Frumkin: The algorithm basically uses the lottery number as the tiebreaker to help

557
00:54:14.160 --> 00:54:16.459
Maurice Frumkin: establish some kind of priority system.

558
00:54:21.270 --> 00:54:33.039
Maurice Frumkin: There's a question in the chat about priority groups. Where do we find the priority groups? I'm not seeing them in your my schools account. So when you look at an individual program. You should be able to see them, especially when you go to the application.

559
00:54:33.950 --> 00:54:44.289
Maurice Frumkin: you might I mean it should be in there. If you log into your system, although the DOE system is kind of funny right now for the middle school process. And I'm sorry I didn't mention this before. But

560
00:54:44.760 --> 00:55:05.060
Maurice Frumkin: what's happening right now with the the do is having some technical issues. If you try to add programs to your middle school application in your my schools account. It might take an hour or so for it to actually show up on your application. And that might be the same. They might still be working out the glitches with priority groups as well, because you should be able to see them eventually in there.

561
00:55:05.250 --> 00:55:07.440
Maurice Frumkin: So that might be why, you're not seeing them yet.

562
00:55:09.618 --> 00:55:15.079
Maurice Frumkin: Is Mark Twain doing the athletics talent. This year I was able to register on my schools. But the info on the

563
00:55:15.380 --> 00:55:20.609
Maurice Frumkin: twain website didn't mention it. I believe they are, as far as I'm as far as I know.

564
00:55:20.880 --> 00:55:21.690
Maurice Frumkin: Yeah.

565
00:55:24.150 --> 00:55:28.329
Maurice Frumkin: But I'll double check on that, just just to be just to be a hundred percent sure.

566
00:55:29.500 --> 00:55:45.280
Maurice Frumkin: Oh, thank you for your kind comment. I appreciate that. Yeah. I mean, if if anyone there was a DOE session last night if anyone was on that session, and they feel like anything was not clear presented clearly. Or if I didn't present anything clearly today, please let me know help. I'm happy to try to clarify anything.

567
00:55:45.900 --> 00:56:01.680
Maurice Frumkin: Is there any meaning to the Seek group? Ge versus Swd, I haven't seen any school that mentioned that. Yeah, there's a lot of meaning to that, because every school has separate seat groups, whether it's General Ed or students with disabilities.

568
00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:03.770
Maurice Frumkin: It's true that schools

569
00:56:04.050 --> 00:56:08.800
Maurice Frumkin: it's not uncommon for schools to not mention that. But it's really important, because

570
00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:11.090
Maurice Frumkin: every public school

571
00:56:11.420 --> 00:56:24.159
Maurice Frumkin: allocates a certain number of seats for students that are in that separate students with disabilities, applicant pool. So this is basically the DOE's way of ensuring that schools are taking their share of students with ieps.

572
00:56:24.560 --> 00:56:25.670
Maurice Frumkin: And

573
00:56:26.360 --> 00:56:35.670
Maurice Frumkin: one of the reasons why it's important is because you they are literally separate applicant pools. So when you're in that separate applicant pool, whichever one may be, you are only

574
00:56:35.860 --> 00:56:41.299
Maurice Frumkin: I mean, I hate to use the word compete, but you're only competing against other applicants in that seat group.

575
00:56:41.850 --> 00:56:50.220
Maurice Frumkin: So you'll this is why, when you look at the the those 2 different seat groups, you might see that there might be different applicant to see ratios, for example.

576
00:56:52.420 --> 00:56:55.990
Maurice Frumkin: which can have a great impact on your chances of getting into a program.

577
00:56:56.060 --> 00:57:03.699
Maurice Frumkin: So this is a good conversation now with your counselor, in terms of which seek group you fall into, and what the implications are of your chance of getting into that program.

578
00:57:04.239 --> 00:57:09.160
Maurice Frumkin: And if you see on your MoD schools, profile page your seat group, and you feel like it's wrong.

579
00:57:09.270 --> 00:57:13.470
Maurice Frumkin: That's another conversation to have with your counselor. In other words, if you feel like

580
00:57:13.600 --> 00:57:20.190
Maurice Frumkin: you know, my child has an Iep, why do not they not fall into the Swd applicant pool, or vice versa?

581
00:57:20.732 --> 00:57:22.990
Maurice Frumkin: Definitely bring that up to your counselor.